Serving your Community Ethically and Compassionately with Mary Ann Escalante

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Hello everyone. Welcome to another amazing episode of the Dominate Law Podcast show. This is a place where we talk about how to create a bigger future for our listeners who are all lawyers from all around the world in terms of time, money, purpose, and relationships. Today I'm super excited because for the very first time, I'm talking to somebody who has been, uh, deputy District Attorney for 30 years. Her name is Maryanne Escalante. She has been the deputy District Attorney for the Los Angeles County. Um, she has been working in hardcore gang in the hardcore gang unit for several years. She prosecuted numerous violent gang members for murder, attempted murder and assault. She has tried 34 murder cases, including special circumstances and capital cases. Marianne has extensive trial experience obtaining justice for victims in over a hundred jury trials, in addition to thousands of other cases. As a prosecutor throughout her career as a supervisor of the sexual assault, child abuse and domestic violence units, she has interviewed hundreds of victims of child molestation and rape in order to better seek justice for them in the courtroom. Maryanne, it's an honor to have you on the show. Welcome.

Good morning. It's an honor to be a part of your podcast,

Maryanne. Um, I, I like to get our listeners to, just to get a little bit insight on who are you, what got you attracted to, uh, you know, the district attorney's office and, and even law itself. So can you kind of help us get to know you a little bit? Where did you come from?

Yes, exactly. Um, well, I was born in Long Beach and raised locally, and my dad was very ambitious. He always wanted a good future for his children, so he was always throwing out occupations as I was growing up, you know, one time I asked him, I what happened to be a housewife? And he said, you could be a housewife right after you graduate from college. And, you know, in case something happens to your husband, you'll be able to support yourself. And that really made a lot of sense to me. So from fifth grade on, I started like kind of researching occupations, and at one time I, somebody dinged my, my car in a parking lot. And this is back when I was about 18 years old. And my dad, I confronted the person who did it in a nice way, and they stated they did not do it, but it was so obvious to me because of the paint on the door was from their car.

So I knew they did it, but they, they kept saying they didn't do it. And I told my father and he told me I should go to small claims court. And it was really a small amount of money. It was $79 I remember, and this is like 1979. And, um, I didn't wanna do it, but he said it was the principle of the matter. So I filed my small claims, I went through the process and I went to court, and I was just in awe of the courtroom at the time. And the judge and the parties, the litigants on each side, and these people were older, they were like in their thirties. And to me, being 18, I felt thought they were old. And I gave my side of the story and the judge sat up there and he listened to both sides and gave us both an opportunity to speak. And then he ruled. And maybe because he ruled in my favor, it kind of gave me a very positive, positive feeling of the law. And I thought it was such a great experience to be this young in a courtroom and to see how justice worked at such a small scale, even that it really piqued my interest in law. And so that's how I started thinking about going the law route.

Let me, let me point out a couple of things. So of course it's obvious you had an amazing dad, uh, who, uh, made you dream big, uh, who challenged you and, uh, who taught you to, you know, stick with principles. And, uh, even though as an 18-year-old, you didn't, may have perhaps have the courage to just do it out of your own, but with that tiny nudge from him, you decided to do it. And, uh, and the other thing is, I guess sometimes these lucky breaks, like you said, maybe like you said, maybe because the judge ruled in your favor and you had this positive experience and you know, this guy did it. So it, it,

Yeah. Perhaps if it went the other way, I would not have gone to law school, but it would've was just so positive. Right. And the judge was so reassuring, and I think he really respected the fact that this 18-year-old would go to court and for $79.

Right,

Right. It had just been much easier to pay it. So anyway, that sparked my interest. And then, um, I was a business major at San Diego State, and I applied to law school and Loyola was my number one choice. And I got in and I had three fantastic years at that law school. It was a really, really positive experience. And, um, I would actually do it again. That's how great it was at Loyola.

That's awesome.

Wonderful teachers. And so I was thinking about going into, um, actually commercial real estate law, business law, and I was actually a summer associate at Oel, Nia Myers. And the people were great, but I wasn't lacking, you know, I sort of just missed that courtroom experience. So I took a trial advocacy class at Loyola my last year, and I just fell in love with the whole process. I felt like when we put on a case, I felt like I was the director of a production, you could cast the scene, you, you could put it in order of your witnesses to tell a great story of what happened. And then the beginning, you explain to the jury what they're going to see, then you follow up with the evidence and then you wrap it up with your closing argument. And I just really got a great feeling from putting on this case. So from there, I knew I wanted to be a deputy district attorney.

Perfect. Perfect. That's wonderful. So, um, give us like a 10,000 foot overview of your career. I know you've done a lot in the 30 years. Like what are the different areas you focused on for how many years? And then let's jump in.

Okay. Well, I applied to the DA's office and um, I I, it's kind of hard to get hired. They're, they only have certain hiring times and sometimes there's hiring freezes. So I knew a class was coming up, so I would call every Monday and, and talk to the DA's office and said, Hey, are you hiring today? Are you hiring today? I was very persistent. So this one day fell on a training class day, and I was asked to come down and he, I was hired right on the spot after being interviewed, of course. And I went into a training class and from the training class downtown, I was sent to Downey as a misdemeanor trial lawyer. And what they do there is back in, in the day, this is, I'm talking 1988 actually, um, you were in charge of a courtroom and my judge was Judge Drees, and you did the calendar.

So every, every morning you had a calendar and you would go to court. And then on Thursdays we had preliminary hearings. And it's interesting 'cause now there's prelim pre preliminary hearings daily, but back then in Downey it was on Thursdays. So your witnesses would come at eight 30, you'd interview 'em and you'd announce ready at nine and you'd just put on your cases. And then, um, on Friday we had readiness hearings where we determined if we were ready to go to trial on Monday. And then we would, we'd do the calendar in the morning, and then as soon as the calendar was over, we'd take a break and then we'd start picking a jury or putting on evidence of that sort. And then, um, I was there for about a year and maybe a, a little over a year. And then I was transferred to Long Beach where I was trying felony cases.

And I really enjoyed trying the cases. I would actually try to try as many as I could. It was became a personal goal to just try as many cases as I could and do a great job at it. And I was fortunate enough to be in a felony assignment, my second assignment instead of going to juvenile. Not that there's anything wrong with juvenile, but you just get so much more experience, um, trying the cases. So after, after I went to Long Beach, I was noticed because I tried so many cases and I had a lot of passion for trials that I was recruited into the hardcore gang unit. I was asked to apply and I applied and I was selected and I was sent to Compton, um, to try violent gang members in a, in a group with about probably seven other attorneys. And we focused mostly on murders and attempt murders because there were so many, we weren't able to take the robberies, the carjacking of the sort. Um, crime was at a all time high back then back for murder in South Central Compton, and we were really busy.

Right. The only thing I know about, you know, violent gang man versus is watching, you know, one of the TV shows, <laugh>. I love those shows. So it's, it's amazing, uh, to be able to talk to somebody like you. Uh, before we talk about that, how many years did you spend there? Seven years. Right.

I spent about six years in Compton, and then I was rotated back into the calendar court, but then I, then I went into the sexual assault child abuse domestic violence unit as a supervisor. And after that I was then again, went back into the gang unit, but this time in Norwalk. So I did two stints of the hardcore gang unit, one in nor in Compton, and one in Norwalk with a few assignments in between.

Right, right.

And then back to Compton as the, um, acting deputy in charge of the hardcore gang unit for a bit as well.

Right. And then what happened after that?

Oh, after that I went to the abolished chronic truancy unit to, um, inform parents and students the importance of staying in school, going to school, and not missing, um, chronic truancy is a big part of school-aged children in these areas of la so we would try to educate the parents about how important it's to send their kids to school, sort of like a prevention, so to speak, to, you know, facilitate healthy, successful adults.

Right.

And then from there, I went to the early disposition, um, program where I deal with hundreds of felonies a month trying to resolve cases for the best solution for both sides, and getting these, um, dispositions done at an early stage if possible.

That's where I'm

Currently inside

Early stage as in meaning like, uh, prevent it from happening again, or you mean early stage as in like

The courtroom stage? Like let, let's, let's give a disposition that's fair at the earliest stage to save court resources for more heavier cases, more violent cases that need to be tried, those types of things.

I understand. Yeah. Let's go back, um, to you, uh, trying, um, um, uh, you know, in the gang unit, because I'm sure a lot of listeners are pretty curious. Um, um, what was your day like in those days? I mean, um, just tell us like, when do you wake up and what, what, what do you typically do?

Well, usually you're in trial at least once a month. Okay. Usually, at least. And at the time I had 23 cases, so you handle your own caseload, you go to court and you work with the defense attorney to pick a date that you can go to trial. And we would, like I said, be in trial about once a month and orchestrate our calendar to, so we could try every case so we didn't have to hand them off. And you really got to know your victims, your witnesses very well, your detectives, the iOS, the investigating officers were very important. They would, um, orchestrate getting the witnesses in serving the subpoenas. But the gang unit's different because, um, people don't want to come, you know, you can imagine they don't wanna testify in a gang case, you know, they're afraid. And they, and also they don't wanna be a snitch.

You know, a snitch is someone that, you know, tells on another person, even if they're the victim of the crime, it's a snitch to testify. So you can imagine the obstacles we had to get these people in court, and sometimes we wouldn't give the witnesses notice. We would just have the investigating officer pick 'em up on the way to court, or they would conveniently disappear, and then we would not be able to proceed. And I have to say, I had very good luck in getting my witnesses in. Sometimes we'd have to tell them on the phone, they'd say, I don't wanna come in. You know, I'm, I'm afraid we'd have to relocate them. We'd have to, um, get 'em their security deposit, help them find a place to live, help them, you know, orchestrate a move so they could get out of the neighborhood so they could testify.

Because we didn't wanna put anybody's life in danger. Right. So, and the gang members would come to court and they were very, I'd have to say they were very respectful and one-on-one, they were, you know, very easy to speak to, and you just kind of get on their level of speech and you just talk to them as people with respect. And I think they really, you know, liked that, that we were respectful to them. We appreciated them being there. We did not take them for granted, but a lot of times you'd have to act like a, um, psychologist, and you'd have to say, Hey, Frank, you know, your, your friend is dead and you, I mean, that's horrible and you actually saw it and you're like his voice from the grave. You, you, but for the grace of God, that could have been you. And now you are here and you can tell, you can be Frank's voice and tell what happened to him that day when he was gunned down.

And you kind of, you know, get to them to want to tell what happened. And more times than not, they would. Now, there's other times they would tell you in your office what happened, but then you get in the courtroom and then they suddenly had amnesia and they didn't see anything. They didn't hear anything. And then we would have to impeach them with like the detective who'd say, you know, were you in the court? Were you in my office an hour ago? Were you present when, um, Phil was telling us what happened on November 2nd, 2001? Yes. What did he say happened? So then the detective would have to tell, because now in front of the jury and the defendant who's at the council table, this witness doesn't wanna speak. And you know, who can blame him Really? Yeah. But we would get the evidence in that

Way because they're afraid of getting killed by the gang or something. Right. Yeah,

Absolutely. And no one can blame these people for, you know, going backwards as we called it, because of the consequences and the fear that they had. And also just the gang mentality that they had a saying, snitches belong in ditches. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. I mean, that's, you know, right there sums it up. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. But some of them would just brave it out and tell the truth, and the jury would listen intently. And more, more times than not, they'd do the right thing and justice was served.

Right. I was gonna ask you, I hate to ask you this question because, uh, I'm afraid of the answer. Um, like, did any of the witnesses get killed or get, get hurt?

I was so blessed that none of my witnesses, knock on wood, were ever injured or hurt or killed. So I'm very lucky for that, because that would be a hard thing to live with, to talk someone into coming to court, and then they get gunned down. I know it has happened to fellow das, but it, but on my watch, it never happened. And I'm, I thank God for that.

Is that because the way you did it? Or just you got lucky? I mean, I'm asking, you

Know, I'm gonna just say I got lucky. I mean, I've made precautions. I, I help people move, but you know, you can only do so much. Sometimes you'll move someone and the next week they're back in the neighborhood because that's where all their friends are mm-hmm <affirmative>. Right. Like that.

Right.

So you can only do so much. But I was just very, very lucky for the outcomes that I've had. And I was very lucky getting my witnesses in as well. I mean, I've had cases where we picked a jury and the witness didn't show up, and we had to release the jury early, and I had to call the investigating officer and just beg him to do everything he could to get the witness in. And we even, at one time, we had a murder case, and I even offered him a voluntary manslaughter for like six years, and he wouldn't take it. And I said, you know, it's insurance because you never know what could happen tonight. And I remember the defense attorney saying, well, even if you get your witness in, I heard he's a, you know, he's not very credible, he's in a gang or whatever.

And I say, well, that's a risk you're gonna take, but I'm offering you six years right now. And they didn't take it. And sure enough, that night at six 30, I remember Mr. Hurd walking in with my detective, and I was so happy to see him. And I said, oh my God, Mr. Hurt, I'm so happy to see you. And his eyes lit up. And I don't know if anyone's ever told him how happy they were to see him. Like I did <laugh> and I, I, I actually asked him, I go, can I put you in a hotel? What can I do for you? And he goes, no, no, I'll show up tomorrow, I promise. And sure enough, at 9:00 AM he was there. He testified he was a great witness. He told the truth, he told what he saw. And I'll never forget at the end of the trial when they convicted him, and then we had, uh, the sentencing hearing where the judge, uh, Chavez actually was the, um, presiding judge.

And she laid down a sentence of 25 to life plus life, plus life plus life consecutive, because it was a case where Mr. Herd observed the defendant shoot into a vehicle with a driver and three passengers. So he was charged with murder and three counts of attempt murder, the driver died, the three passengers lived. And, um, when the judge handed to down the 25 to life plus life, plus life plus life consecutive, the defendant asked, can I have that six years? And it's like, no, did you not hear me? And then the defendant ran to the back of the courtroom to escape, and the bailiff, and actually a DA that was sitting in the courtroom watching the sentencing go down, um, actually tackled the defendant as he was leaving the courtroom. So that was high drama case where, you know, he hedged his bed on the witness, not showing, but I just had extremely good luck, even the last minute getting witnesses in.

Right. You know, it's kind of interesting you're saying that a lot of these people ended up doing the right thing, even though maybe some of them belong to gangs. Uh, what's your take on gangs and stuff? I mean, I, I know you are an attorney, but I'm just saying, you know, as a person, like, do you feel, uh, just circumstances? I mean, I don't, I haven't lived in Los Angeles, so I haven't lived in, you know, places where there's a lot of this stuff happening, uh, personally, or at least I'm not involved, or I'm not aware of those types of neighborhoods or surroundings. So I'm just wondering, like, you know, because I'm sure there are not a lot of people who get to deal with, uh, the kind of challenges or the situations you got to deal with.

Well, I'm, I'm going to say, um, the gangs were on both sides of the case. They were usually the victims, Uhhuh <affirmative>, and they were the witnesses and the defendant. Of course, I didn't get to know the defendants, but I sure got to know my victim's families who were always mo nice people, very nice people. And the gang members themselves, they were actually very nice one-on-one you wouldn't even know. And they were respectful in our office, and, you know, they had a different way of life, but you could relate to them. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I felt like I became a better person just listening to them. And like, I remember my, one of my first gang cases, you know, I, you know, I grew up in a neighborhood that was, um, there was no gangs and it was, you know, kids played steal the bacon and, you know, a hide and seek at night and ditch 'em and things like that.

Right. And there it was, there was no scariness to our neighborhood and or crime. And I'm in Compton interviewing a witness about, you know, where they were on Christmas Eve, and they said, well, my family went to my aunt's house, but I stayed home. And I said, well, how come you didn't go to your aunt's house? And they go, well, someone had to guard the Christmas tree in the presents. And I'm like, really? Like, that was so foreign to me that this is what people go through. Or did you, or you're interviewing a or you're in trial and you say on November 3rd, um, were you at the location of, you know, were you at your residence located here? And they'd say, yes. And did you hear anything unusual? And they'd say, no. And you'd go, what? Well, did you hear anything? Well, like what? Well, like a gunshot. They'd say, oh yeah. Well, isn't that unusual? No, we hear 'em every night. Hmm. You know, so you kind of had to word your question to accommodate where their background came from, because they don't understand, because that isn't unusual. Hmm. They hear it all the time. Right. So, you know, what'd you do? Well, we heard, you know, we heard gunshots. What'd you do? We all, we jump on the floor as usual. That's our normal thing. We do it like every night. So you really have a great appreciation for your own upbringing after speaking to these people, but really have some compassion for where these people are in their life and what they deal with daily. I mean, it's not easy.

Right. It's almost like they, they got dealt a bad set of cards. You got you, you were brought up in a neighborhood where you don't see these things. Yeah. And they were in a neighborhood. It's just, that's normal.

But I just felt so lucky to be able to experience their life with them, even if it was just for a few hours. Right. To have a great appreciation for them. So then when they did take the stand and they didn't tell the truth, I wasn't mad. I got it. Right. I got it. They were doing what they had to do to survive. Right. And I did what I had to do to proceed for justice. And then I would have to put on another witness who was there, who heard the conversation, who would have to tell what, you know, what they heard. And then the jury decides, is the witness telling the truth now? Or is there a reason why they're not saying that it happened as they told the police in the beginning?

Right. So it's almost like you became zen. Like you, you were kind of calm. You didn't get upset or agitated when things didn't go your way because you related to them. You understood them

Very much, very much. As much as I could. And I learned so much from them. Right. I mean, I just was lucky or blessed to be in a situation where I could take that away and then have a better understanding of their plight and the lifestyle they lead, and just what it takes to get by in the day.

Right, right, right. Right. That's, that's amazing. Um, what would your advice be if, if I am a young lawyer and, uh, I'm going into this? Like what would you tell me?

Oh, I'd tell you to take every opportunity, um, as a gift. Uh, go outside your comfort zone. Always strive for the next assignment that is, you know, challenging. Um, learn, ask, ask everybody. Don't ever be afraid. There's no, I know this is trite, but there's no such thing as a dumb question. Right. And just learn from other people's personal experiences, their trial experience. Go to court, watch people, see what works, see what doesn't. And don't try to adapt a style that doesn't belong to you. Just learn from everybody and then come to your own style and, and make it work. Don't be fake. Be yourself. Be transparent. Don't be humble. There's never a dumb question. Just ask. And people are so, you know, so happy to help and help an eager young attorney. Even today, I have attorneys come in that are young, and they'll ask me a question and I can tell they don't do criminal.

And I say, oh, are you, do, you don't do criminal? Is that right? And they say, yes. I go, let me help you. And I'm always helping. And I know there's a, some defense attorney that sit next to me and they say, well, you know, why is that guy taking money if he doesn't know how to do his job? And I say, you know, everyone has to learn, and I'm so happy to help. And I don't want anyone to have an unfair advantage. You know, everybody, you know, has a client and they deserve to be represented by the best. And so when an attorney doesn't know something, I'll say, you know what I would do? I would get a mitigation package together. I would find out what your clients are doing now, what if they're in school, if they have a job, because these are the questions the judge is going to ask you. So I want you to be prepared. And I feel good about that because I want them to be on equal leverage with all the other attorneys that come in, and I'll help 'em fill out their paperwork. And, you know, I appreciate it when they tell me, Hey, I'm new at this, or I usually do probate, or whatever they do. And I'm just so glad to help them. Um, you know, I feel, I feel that's my, my part as being in the legal community as well.

Right. Let me ask you another question. Maybe it's a bit of a tough question. Um, you didn't witness the crime, right? So you are kind of figuring it out and what you do and how good you are at your job could change somebody's life. And sometimes you might be right, sometimes you might be wrong. Right? Absolutely. So how do you go about, you know, doing the right thing, especially when you're not there at the time? I mean, I'm just asking.

Oh, I can tell you cases, even as a very young da, when I was in Long Beach, I mean, I was a grade two. There's, you know, different grade levels in the DA's office. And I tried a case and it was a, it was a res burglary, but it was after the fact where a person was trying to help someone get away from the police or something of that sort. And my witness, the police officer, when he testified, he testified to say X, Y, and Z. And, um, I put that on his evidence. Well, that evening he called me and said, you know, he made a mistake. He, some of the answers he gave were not correct, and because they weren't correct, his credibility was completely at issue. So I was appalled that this was coming out after he testified, and I needed the jury to know.

So the next day I put the defendant, I mean, I'm sorry, I put the witness back on the stand and said, you testified in court yesterday, is that correct? And he said, yes. And you called me last night. Is that right? Yes, I did. And what did you tell me? I told you, you know, X, Y, and Z. So what you said yesterday in court was not correct. But you've since reviewed your reports and realized you testified inaccurately and you're clearing that up today. Is that right? Yes. Okay. Thank you. And then the defense asked a few questions, and then the def the witness left, and I stood up in front of the jury and said, the people, um, moved to dismiss the case. Mm-hmm. I thought the case went, it went bad. I mean, it, I didn't feel good about that case. I didn't feel confident in that case because my witness testified inaccurately.

And then the whole case was subject to question and my question. And if I don't believe in a case, I'm not going forward. So I dismissed that case, and my boss completely agreed when I told him of the facts. Well, in all honesty, I did run it by my boss the night before and said, this is what I'm going to do. And, um, he agreed with me. And so I did that, and I felt like my credibility was intact, and I'm not gonna go forward on something I don't believe in. And that's how I've always been understand in all my cases.

I understand. I understand why you said you treat every day as a gift. You are humble, right? I mean, it's not about your ego. You didn't say, oh, well, I'm gonna look bad.

Oh no, never. Right. No, I wanna do the right thing. And that's why I I became a da, right? Is to, I felt like I was in a position to do the right thing. And every case is different, and every person is different. Every defendant's different. Everyone comes from a different walk of life, different experiences, whether it be, you know, not able to get an education because of the gang area or mental illness or whatever it is. And I take that into consideration when I make, um, disposition in cases, like, what, what is the most proper settlement in a case? Now, of course, in the gang unit, you don't have any discretion on what to sentence, because normally, you know, that one time I did offer a voluntary manslaughter because I knew the guy was good for the murder, but I wasn't sure if I was gonna be able to approve it. Right. But I did. But, you know, so in the, in the gang cases, the murders, those were 25 to life. And we just had to give a fair trial. And that was our goal. Here's a fair trial and let the jury decide. Some cases hung meaning they couldn't come to a verdict, but we'd try 'em again. And as long as we believed in our case, we would go forward again and try to get to the proper resolution.

Right. Let me ask you this, um, um, of course only thing people like me know about what's happening in your world is by watching TV or movies, right? Yeah. So it should be totally wrong, and a lot of times it's all made up. But do you feel everybody's like you, you know, on the district attorney side, meaning they're willing to accept a mistake? Or not just you, but even the people in the forces and stuff? I mean, is it like, is it unfair that sometimes they get a bad rap that may they make a mistake and they cover it up? I don't know. I'm just asking.

Well, I, I can't speak for anybody else, but I know in my circle that I've been around in the DA's office, everybody strives to do the right thing.

Right?

Right. I mean, your, your actions affect someone's life.

Right?

We don't take this lightly, so we're in it for doing the right thing. Makes sense. And I feel, I feel great because we're in a position to foster that, to do the right thing because

You have a huge responsibility, right. Which is absolutely, you could put somebody away for years or the entire lifetime. So that one thing you do could change somebody's life.

Absolutely. And that's the worst thing that could happen. So you get your case and you read it, but what you're basing it on is the police reports and the person's rap sheet to determine, you know, the best resolution. And you're also getting a feel for your case based on this. But now you're having the witnesses come in and you go over the police report and make sure everything's accurate. And if you know, and some people, you know, you may have five people that witness something, and they all see it differently. It doesn't mean they're lying. Right. It means that everybody remembers things differently. And so you just put the evidence on and jurors know that, that not everybody's gonna see the same thing. And you put in the, the jury instructions. And that's the beauty of our system. 12 people in the community have to go through the evidence before somebody can be convicted or acquitted. You know, you have to have 12 people decide that on the guilt. Right. And I think that is the best system in the world.

Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Because you can fool some people sometimes, but you can't feel all the people all the time, so they

Yeah. You, and you're not trying to fool anyone. Yeah. I understand. You're trying to get justice. Exactly.

Right. Right, right. So even if some people miss something, then they, that

Somebody, and then, you know, you feel for these cases and you feel for the people that are involved and the victims. And you know, I had a case one time where I, I kept in touch with the victim. Her name was Karen, and she was shot six times by her boyfriend. And, um, she was kind of iffy on the phone about coming in, but she said she'd come in and I, you know, my, I had a big heart for this girl, and I know she was afraid, but she said she'd come in and we were picking a jury, and I just had this weird feeling that she might not show up. So right before the jury was sworn in, because once the jury sworn in double jeopardy attaches, uh, you know, I'm sorry, jeopardy attaches and you can't retry it. So I'd asked the judge, um, as soon as we picked the panel, it was about noon.

He was just about to swear them in. And I said, Hey, do you mind if we swear 'em in after lunch? I just wanna make sure my witness shows up. I just had this feeling inside, and you always have to go with your gut. Right? And so he said, sure, no problem. Well, sure enough, Karen did not show up, and I couldn't get ahold of her. So I had to go back after lunch and explain to the judge, you know, I know, I'm so sorry. We, we had all this time on jury selection, but this is a attempt murder case. And where my victim was shot six times, and I don't want it just to be a not guilty. I said, I need to dismiss the case and we'll refile. And so we did that, and the judge was very understanding, and we put on the case a couple, maybe a month or two later.

But in the meantime, I went to her house. She lived in Carson in a trailer park. And, um, I met their family. I met her brother, her brother's name was Kevin. And, um, met the mother and really talked to Karen about, you know, I showed her pictures of her injuries and said, look, it, you could be dead right now. You have a second chance at life, and you have a chance to, you know, make sure justice is served because this person could do this again to somebody else. Right. And I convinced her to do the right thing. And I felt very good about that because it was the right thing. And the next trial, she came to court and she testified truthfully, and the defendant was found guilty and, um, was punished accordingly to his crime. And she was very happy and re not happy, but she felt like she was strong and courageous and did the right thing and potentially protected someone in the future.

And I had a bond with her because of that and her whole family. Right. So those are the extra things that you do in these type of cases. When people are in fear and afraid, you go the extra mile, you meet them, you, you have a rapport with them, you get to know them, and you assure them that it's going to be okay, and this is the right thing, and they do it and they feel good about it af at the end of the day. But they got justice. I feel like Karen was empowered after that instead of being meek and afraid, she felt empowered after testifying. And I felt really good about that.

Let me ask you this, did you ever feel that your safety was threatened?

You know, it's interesting that you say that because in all my gang cases that I tried, I always treated the defendant with respect, um, in trial and during court proceedings. And I never felt threatened. But I'm going to tell you the interesting thing. I've talked to many defense lawyers, and the defendants usually are more mad at them, their, their own attorney, maybe even threaten them or get mad at them because they have a close relationship. And I think they expect so much from their lawyer to, you know, make magic happen. Right. But I feel like the defense, the defendants think of us as fungible. We're just a DA, if it wasn't me, it would be somebody else. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. Mm-hmm <affirmative>. And I don't think they really take it personally. Oh, one time after a closing argument, one defendant did mu mutter, some profanities under his breath, but I, I wasn't afraid and I didn't take it as, you know Right. A threat. I just took it as, you know, the closing must have hit home with him. Right. And he didn't like it. And that's why. But I never ever felt threatened.

That's, that's interesting. Uh, I know we have a lot to talk about. Can we talk about your time in the sexual assault, uh, child abuse and the domestic violence? Is that the same unit or is that three different

Yeah, that's the same unit. Yes. Okay. I went there as a supervisor, but as a supervisor you have your own caseload. You try cases, you interview witnesses, and you have a stack of cases on your desk every morning when you come to court. I had a really good crew, they would break 'em up. 'cause one person could not file all these cases. When there's a child victim, we'd have them come in and we'd interview them. And, you know, you have to, you have to demonstrate that they know the difference between a lie and the truth. You have to go through a litany of questions about holding up a blue crayon and saying, if this, if I told you this crown was, you know, do you know the difference between a lie and the truth? And they'd say, yes. If I told you this crown was green, would this be a lie?

Yes. Okay. Is it good to tell a lie? No. What happens when you tell a lie? We get, I get punished. You know, is it important to tell the truth? So you could qualify them as a witness? And we've had witnesses as young as four. Some people have had 'em as young as three. And you know, and it's intimidating for these kids to go to court. So we would make a point to bring them to court, you know, prior to trial. Show them the judge, take 'em into chambers, show them the judge without their robe, show them where they're going to see sit, show them the jury's gonna be here. You know, just really warm up to them so they're not frightened of this big intimidating courtroom. Get to know all the players, get to know the court reporter, get to know the, the judicial assistant, you know, all the parties.

And then they're more comfortable. But still, sometimes they go silent. You know, it's very intimidating to have to tell a room full of strangers something that happened to you. And some kids will go all the way up until the event, they'll be forthright. They'll be talkative. And then when you ask them what happened on the couch, they clam up. So you're doing everything you can to get them to feel comfortable to freely tell the truth of what happened. It's very, very touchy. It's very difficult. It's very sad. There are no winners. Sometimes the defendant is the grandfather. I mean, and sometimes the, the father, I had a case where the father did not wanna believe his child. His two daughters were molested by the neighbor. He just could not grasp it. And it was because he felt like that could not possibly happen to my daughters.

I would protect them. So, you know, I had to convince the dad, yes, it did happen to your daughters. You need to, you need to get them help. They need counseling. And it's not your fault it happens, but he just did not wanna believe it. And I go, he just, the defendant just pled. Did you hear how many years he pled for the guy did it? So there's all that, there's family dynamics, there's, you know, parents that will come forth and then they change their mind. Um, maybe the, the defendant is the breadwinner and they need, they need him outta jail to make money for the family. There's all these other areas that you have to dive into. And again, being a deputy district attorney in these units, you really have to go the extra mile and be a therapist as well. And just really listen, listening is such a huge thing.

Let them tell their concerns. Don't cut them off. Let them voice them. And then try to help them with counseling services, whatever you can. And just tell them, you know, this is your daughter. That they're, they're they told you, you know, don't shame them. Don't listen to them be their support. They rely on you. You're their protector. You know, things of that sort it, these cases, both the molestation cases and the murders and dealing with the victim's families and, and being a part of them and crying with them really takes a piece of your soul. So you feel like you're doing community service daily at work. And, you know, sometimes you need a lighten, lightened mood, you know, a nice lunch with your friends just to shake it because it really does take a toll. These and these, these terrible situations that, that people find themselves in. Right. Right. At no fault of their own.

Mm-hmm <affirmative>.

Does that make sense?

Absolutely. And if I'm a child and I'm living in this house, I mean, I bet I mean, there's gonna be all kind of cases of the dad who may not believe what happened to a daughter. You know, because you just kind of,

Well, they don't wanna believe because how could this happen to my own daughter under my roof? How could my friend have done this? Right. Or whoever, how could my father have preyed on my children? Right. Or what's interesting is you'll find that a victim will tell you their dad used to do it to them, and now he's victimizing their children. And I'm in my head thinking, if your dad did this to you, why did you let your dad babysit your kids?

Right.

You know? But it doesn't make sense to me. But, you know, maybe someone's in a situation with, they were desperate and that's who they had to babysit. I can't judge them because I don't walk in their shoes.

Right. I mean, I can't imagine what the child is going through. Right. Not just what happened, but all this pressure and all this stuff.

Oh, it's, it's terrible. And the kids are so resilient and they're so cute and oh, and it's heartbreaking when you say, you know, did you know, did so and so do something to you? Yeah. Okay. What were you wearing? And they're wearing like a Tinkerbell shirt or Peter Pan, you know? Right. And you're just picturing this innocence of this 6-year-old and then this happens to them and Oh, it's just terrible. So it really does break your heart.

Yeah. And, um, yeah, this is probably, that was one of the toughest cases, right? I mean, is that tougher than the gang unit

To me? Yes. Yes. I mean, as sad as the gang unit is and the murders that you deal with, with the families of the victims and stray bullets that kill a father of six. And you and or somebody who stabbed to death in their home by their neighbor. And this is a, a woman who made food for the neighbor who killed her because she came home in the middle of a, a, a burglary in her home. 'cause she took a test at the local community college and got out early and ran into her neighbor. And he was in fear that she would tell his relatives and he'd go back to prison, that he stabbed her to death crying with that family that is really horrible and takes a piece of your soul. But the kids, the kids, I mean, that is, I mean, it's just a whole different heart wrench. You know, it's all, it's all heart wrenching.

I was gonna ask you, how do you deal with the emotional side of this? I mean, you're a human being. I mean, yes, you're a lawyer, but like, I mean, any tips, advice for somebody in the shoes,

You know, you, you really are all in and you really take it to heart. And it does take a toll, but you have to look at the good you're doing. And that's the positive. These people are so appreciative of you and your service and what you've done for their family, that it makes it all worth it. And sometimes you have to make decisions and you don't always know that they're going to be the right one. But you have to be confident. Like I had a family where they were, they were sick and tired of the judicial process. It was taking years to try these two guys for murder. They killed their two, um, innocent sons that happened to be in the backyard at the wrong time, the wrong place at the wrong time. And they were mistaken as gang members and they weren't. And I got transferred into the Norwalk gang unit in the middle of another DA getting transferred out.

And they were like, oh no, here goes another delay. And they were very upset that I came in and I embraced that family and I said, um, I'm gonna do whatever I can for you to make this process go quicker and faster. And so I looked at the case and it was a double murder. And there was two defendants. One was the driver and one was the shooter. Who was the passenger. Well, the, they were both in custody, but the passenger who actually did the shooting, he was a shot caller in custody. And he called a murder from custody in which he was, um, facing trial for that as well. And he ordered some other people to be killed as well. So he had a litany of cases trailing behind. And that case was gonna take forever to go to trial. But the driver just had this one case.

So I made this decision to sever them, which I don't know a lot of people that would do that, because you usually don't want the heavy off your case. And when I say the heavy, the heavy in this case was the passenger who actually got out of the car, went into the backyard and shot the two pla the two victims. Well, I made a decision to sever them because I didn't know when that case would ever go to trial. So I took Mr. Um, de la Rosa and made the decision after speaking with the family, is this something you would like me to do? And they said yes. And so I did it and I proceeded with one defendant in court where I put on the evidence that he drove to a parking lot. They both robbed some unrelated victims, and then they had word where this rival gang members were.

And they drove to that location and the, the driver defendant parked his car in front of the house while the passenger shooter went into the backyard, shot two sleeping victims on a couch, and then ran back into the waiting car and drove off to safety. And the whole investigation that went through to determine who, what the, you know, who, who owned the car, who drove the car, and who these players were. So we had the evidence, we had both players, but the, the shooter, it was gonna take at least a year or two more. And these victims wanted some type of relief. Now. So I severed the case, I tried it just on aiding and abetting and, you know, helping with this murder, educating the jury that you don't have to be the one to pull the trigger to be saddled with the intent of the shooter.

And the jury ended up doing the right thing as I I predicted they would do. And they found the nons shooter guilty of murder, and he was punished accordingly. And they were so, so thankful that this, at least one of them, they got justice served early and he was guilty of two counts of first degree murder for that and the earlier robberies as well. And they were so thankful. And then they waited for Mr. Pen peni to be tried and his was actually a death case. And that's why it was going to take so long. And that was at that, that part was tried by another DA downtown where other crimes had occurred and we got justice in just a different order for this family. And they were very, very grateful. But that was a big decision and it could have backfired, but I was very confident in my case and that the jury would do the right thing and I would be able to educate them that you don't have to pull the trigger to be guilty of first degree murder. And they followed it along and had no problems coming to a verdict in that case.

Right. I know I can keep talking to you forever, but I think we need to wrap it up. Um, okay. Any final thoughts you wanna leave with our listeners? I would

Just tell the listeners to follow your heart. Find your passion in the law. Don't do a type of law that doesn't really fulfill you. And again, like being a defense attorney, I and a prosecutor, I feel like you're doing community service daily. You are helping people no matter what side you are on the table, whether you're helping your defendant and all his background and his history to bring him to where he is, to fight for justice, for him to make sure or her to make sure they have a fair trial, a fair shake at the justice system that is community service as a job, as well as being a prosecutor and taking into consideration the victims that you represent, the families that you represent of victims that are no longer here. And that is really lifelong job rewarding. And to be in a position where you go to work every day and to love your job and to have passion and to know you're doing something to make a difference in people's lives, really is the epitome of picking the right pro profession.

And I am so blessed that for 30 years I have been in a position where I could give back to the community. And I, I know I have mentioned that I am running, I mentioned to you earlier before we went on the podcast that I am running for LA County Superior Court Judge Seat 20. And I know that my skills as a prosecutor and always wanting to do the right thing and being fair and impartial and all my experience in the courtroom has prepared me for my next step and my journey to be a superior court judge. And I would appreciate everybody's vote in LA County as my journey to the bench continues.

Absolutely. I wish you the very best. And I know you have a website, right? It's escalante for judge.com. Is that the best pa place to

Yes. Support you? Right. And you can read about me and you can read about my history in the office and I would really encourage you to go to my website and learn more about me as a prosecutor and a person.

I really appreciate it. I really enjoyed talking to you.

I enjoyed talking to you.

Thank you. I appreciate it. And uh, I was gonna ask you, um, um, if, if, if a lawyer, um, you know, a colleague of yours wants to talk to you and they're not living in LA but they're in some other part of the country or, or the world, is there a way they could reach out to you or get ahold of you and ask you for advice if, if, if of course, if you're free or if you're available.

Absolutely. I would love that. Um, go to my website and you can be a subscriber and you can also call me, um, my number. I can give you my number. Would you like it?

Absolutely. We'll put it in the call notes if that's okay with you. Oh,

That's fine. It's 5 6 2 5 0 6 6 1 7 1. And I'd be happy to mentor, um, give suggestions, encouragement, answer questions for anything I can in my world, in the legal community.

That's so kind of you. I really appreciate it. I know you are busy and I really appreciate you taking the time today, Maryanne. And, uh, I wish you the very best. And the website again is escalante for judge.com. We are gonna put all of this along with the call notes. Um,

Okay. And vote June 5th in the primary. That's when the race will be decided.

Okay. June 5th. Uh, and, uh, that's in the LA County, right? So anybody living

Yes. LA County,

Right? Anybody living in LA County listening to this? Yes.

Thank you so much for your time. This was very interesting and I enjoyed myself today. I hope the listeners find it interesting as well.

Absolutely. I, I loved it. And, uh, you are talking from your heart and you are sharing your life and I really appreciate you doing that with us. And, um, I want to thank all the listeners. If you like this podcast, feel free to share it with your friends. Uh, write a review for us, uh, post it on social media, uh, you know, um, let the others learn from Maryanne, just like you and I learn from her by listening to her today. Have a wonderful day. And Maryanne, once again, thank you very much for taking the time and have a wonderful day.

You too. Thank

You.

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