The Journey & Experiences of being a Lawyer with Gary Bennett

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Hello everyone. This is Nareen, your host with Dominate Law podcast show. I'm super excited to do the first episode today with Gary Bennett. Gary is an attorney practicing in Mississauga, Ontario. He has, um, helped thousands of people with employment law and related matters, both companies and individuals. So today I'm excited to talk to Gary about his life, his story, and some of the things he has learned as a attorney, um, and as an owner of a private practice. Gary, welcome.

Thank you so much, Rin.

Gary, for those of us, um, who don't know you, of course, you and I met four years ago and, uh, you and I have been working together for four years or more. For those of us who don't know you, um, can you tell us a little bit about yourself? Like, when did you graduate?

Certainly, I, wow, you're gonna date me now, but <laugh>, I can tell you that I graduated, I got called to the bar as a lawyer in 2000, the year 2000. So February 25th, 2000 was my call day, and that's the day I became a lawyer almost 18 years ago.

Right. So

At that point, I had graduated from university, I'd done my bar admissions courses, and I got called to the bar and started practicing as a labor and employment lawyer immediately.

Right. What got you attracted to law? Like, I mean, why did you decide to become a lawyer?

You know, that's a great question. I'm one of those people that made the decision early on in life. So some people went to university and, and tried to figure out where should I be, what should I do, and so forth. I made the decision at age nine. I was on my way to church with my family, and I remember distinctly my parents asking me, look, what do you wanna do with your life? And I said, I wanna be a lawyer. That's what I want to do. And I made that commitment then, and I'd always liked it. I'd always enjoyed it. And to this day, I, I stand by that and I'm happy I made the choice. And in every career there are ups and downs and there are great things and there are some not so great things, but I've never regretted it and I've never looked back.

I enjoy it. It gives me the opportunity to work with people, meet lots of people, and more importantly, help people. So as an employment lawyer, I get the opportunity to help people in one of their times of need. And when I'm acting for individuals, I meet them normally at the point where they've lost their income. And that can be a very desperate point for people because they're facing payments of all sorts. They didn't plan to be unemployed that day. And oftentimes they've made financial commitments that they're not sure if they're gonna be able to keep. And what I do is I help them negotiate termination packages, which gives them the bridge financing to get to the next job. And so it's really rewarding when I meet someone in that desperate moment, and I can see the end result many times where we are gonna get a certain result and we'll be able to help them. And the most rewarding point for me is on the day when it works out, we get the settlement and I hand them the check and they look at me and say, oh my goodness, it did work out. Right.

And I love that.

Absolutely. And so going back to when you were nine years old, uh, what inspired you? Did you see somebody, like was somebody like you said, I want to be like this guy, and and what, oh, I'm just curious. Like, 'cause nine is is a young age, so, um, you're absolutely, you're absolutely right. People saying, I wanna be a, you know, football player or a movie star, or something like that. <laugh> <laugh>.

So what prompted it? Well, I don't think it's an accident that I was on my way to church, and I've always been, uh, I've been a Christian for most of my life. I believe in God. And, and I honestly believe that being a lawyer is a calling. I don't think it's just something that happens. I think it's a calling. And in my particular case, I believe it's a calling from God. So at that young age, I heard it, I understood it, I accepted it, and I continued to enjoy it. And I think that's one of the reasons why I enjoy what I do.

Right. So coming back to, um, what you're saying is you felt you are helping people at the time of desperate time in their life, you know, and, and, and being able to do that, be there for them, and, you know, uh, of course it's your skills and your knowledge, but beyond that, it's just, you know, that ability to connect with people and help them out when they need the most help, when they feel the most vulnerable.

Exactly. That's really what, that's really what I do when I'm helping individuals who've lost their employment. And you can imagine in, in some circumstances, there are people who have worked in places longer than they've been married.

Right?

So losing that employment relationship is almost as devastating as a divorce. And oftentimes people go through many of the same symptoms. They go through the, the fear, they go through the anxiety, they go through the anger, they go through the point where they've resolved to the fact that, okay, they're gonna be working somewhere different, you know, for the rest of their lives. And they eventually come to grips with a termination package and so forth. But when I meet with them, they're in that desperate position. And that's from an individual human point of view, they're, they're devastated oftentimes. And it's a great opportunity to help somebody rehabilitate themselves and get back on their feet and understand that it's not the end of the world. And there's more out there. And oftentimes the message that I give to people, to many people is that this is the best thing that's ever happened to you.

It's the second chance, and you get the opportunity to get a package and restart your life and do what you choose instead of living by default. And I find that it, it really is rewarding to see that come to pass in so many people's lives. You know, on the, on the flip side, when I act for corporations, these are business decisions that they've made, and they want to resolve them with the least amount of legal exposure and the least amount of financial cost. And you know, I'd say for most of the businesses and perhaps all the businesses that I choose to represent, when they make these types of decisions, it's not with any malice in mind. And they genuinely don't want to increase the hardship on anybody's life, even though they have ended the employment relationship, they just want to end it in a responsible way and move forward separately.

Right, right. Absolutely. Uh, let's, uh, trace through your career. So you, you, almost 18 years ago, you got your bar, your call to the bar. So, um, what happened since, like, can you give us like a two or three minute summary of your career? Like what happened, you know, were you in private practice?

Sure. So when I was in, when I was still in law school, I was recruited to join a law firm called Heen and Blakey. And at that time, Heen and Blakey was one of the up and coming law firms. They had an exceptional labor and employment department. And so I was recruited out of school to join them and do my icing with them. And I did that. I articled with that firm, and I worked there for two years afterwards. But my passion has always been to, to have my own practice. Ever since I was young, I knew I wanted to work for my own firm. I wanted to not so much be my own boss, but I wanted to be able to handle the cases that I wanted to be able to handle. And, and so after two years of working with he and Blakey, I started working in a different firm, which was organized such that I could build my practice, I could build my own business of clients that knew me, that came to me because they wanted my services and they liked me and worked with me.

And pretty much since 2002, I've been working in building my own firm and, and sometimes under different banners. So when I left Keen and Blakey, I worked with a firm called RZ CD Law Firm, and that's where I really built my business. And then I left that firm after about, I think it was almost 10 years, I think it was eight years I left that firm and started the firm, Bennett Law Chambers with my sister. And we started a law firm. And, and now I've expanded to the point where I've rebranded my own firm, GAB law firm, and I started GAB law firm in April of 2017. So I've taken my clients the book of business that I really began in 2002, and now I am in my own firm with my own banner, GAB law firm, and all the flexibility and, and ability to help the clients that I want to help and to be able to work on the types of files that I want to work on. So this is a really exciting time for me.

That's awesome. So you feel, um, I mean, I mean, so you talked about two passions. One is, you know, helping people as a lawyer, but the other one was, uh, you know, being your own, own, own, you know, business person, meaning having your own firm, doing your own thing. Uh, what attracted you to kind of take that path where it's, it's, it's, you know, it, it's like, it's like, you know, um, you know, having your own boat, so to speak. You know, like, like you could take a ship and, you know, travel with thousand other people, or you could, you know, take the risk and <laugh>, you know, go in this uncharted season, you know, do your own thing. And what, why did you like that? What was the reason behind it?

I love that example, by the way, <laugh>, I liked the way you worded that. So the reason why I didn't take the cruise liner, but I, I chose, I won't call it a dinghy, but maybe my own yacht. <laugh>.

Yeah, exactly.

<laugh>. The reason why I chose that was for a few reasons. Uh, number one, I recall working at he and Blakey, and I remember the structure and, and the structure really helped me because it helped me to be organized, but I also understood that the structure also restricted me. So I was restricted in ways that I couldn't do certain types of work if it didn't meet certain profit criteria. I couldn't do certain work if the partner who was managing me didn't approve it or didn't like it or want it. And I realized very early in life that there are some cases that need to be argued, whether they make good business sense or not. There are some people that will never be helped because their cases are not cost effective unless somebody decides to, to do it and do it sometimes without being paid or sometimes being underpaid, but to do it because it needs to be done.

Right. And I wanted to do cases like that not all the time, of course, right? Because you can't run a business without earning money. Right. But there are some cases that I, I knew I, they needed to be done and, and I felt as though I had to do them, and I didn't want to turn them away, and I didn't want someone else to go without some type of justice or remedy without me trying. And that could only be accomplished in a place where I determined what type of work I took on. So if I decided to take on a case that, that perhaps didn't pay for my, my full hourly rate, or it didn't pay the time that I took to do it, it would be me that would suffer the consequences of working without being paid the full amount. I wouldn't, it wouldn't be a another set of lawyers, it wouldn't be a partner who said, well, you know, you spent your time doing this instead of work that could have given us X amount of dollars.

I was willing to bear the burden and the financial cost of doing that for some people while working hard on other files as well. And because of that, I was able to grow a business, especially from people who seem to be unlikely clients, because, you know, their cases may not have had a lot of money or not enough cash flow at the appropriate times, but they needed justice, they needed a remedy. And so I built my practice on a mixture of cases that really pay the bills and other cases that sometimes take a while longer, and they'll get a remedy and pay some of the bills.

Right, right. So going back to, I know, I mean, we all, I mean, the theme of my, the podcast is, you know, enha growing your freedom or growing your happiness or enhancing your happiness. And typically, um, we, when we look at happiness, really, um, sometimes it's about more money, sometimes it's about more time, you know, so you can do other things with that time. Sometimes it's about, you know, better relationships because you know, the 'cause relationships do make us happy. The Harvard did a study, I think the longest study, they tracked people over a 50 year period, and they noticed, uh, the number one common ingredient for all those people who are still alive at 90 and were really happy is amazing relationships. So it's time, money, relationships, and purpose, right. Purpose as in meaning, satisfaction from your work. So you talked a lot about, um, meaning, you know, um, satisfaction.

And, uh, that's why even you got into law, uh, and you also touched on, um, uh, so meaning and satisfaction to me is like purpose. And of course, you also talked about money because, you know, uh, you need to have a, you know, you need to make a living, you have a family to take care of. And, and of course, like everybody else, you don't wanna work hard. You wanna work smart. So, um, you know, so if you have to work, uh, less, but hopefully generate more, and at the same time make a difference for the clients you're serving, it's a win-win for everyone. Right. So, uh, just curious, looking through that lens of time, money, purpose, and relationships, what were some of the things, uh, you see, uh, advantages of being a, a being a, a business owner, lawyer versus an employee lawyer? I mean, given that you have been on both sides of the fence,

That's a great question. And, and I can tell you when you hear my answers, you'll understand exactly why I chose to take my own yacht instead of the, the cruise liner. You know, for my voyage around the world, I, I fully appreciate the idea that my time is mine. So when I was working in a firm, I was required to do a certain number of hours of work each day. And so let me, let me start that again. When I was working in a firm, I was required to do a certain number of hours each day. I was required to work a certain target per se. And so what that does is it means that you have to start the day at a certain time, and you're not sure when you're gonna end the day, but you, you have to work enough hours in order to be able to bill the certain target.

Now, what that meant was I was waking up and getting to work for seven 30 in the morning. That's when I would be at my desk at seven 30 in the morning. And I was the, one of the first ones in the firm. And I recall most nights I was one of the last ones to leave, and I usually left sometime after 8:00 PM or so. So that was my day, and I worked a lot of hours. And I'll tell you right now, I didn't complain about it because I did it willingly. I was at the start of my career and I wanted to learn, and I wanted to understand so many things that I didn't understand. And I wanted to get every single experience possible to prepare myself for the day when I was gonna be working on my own. If you want to contrast that to my life.

Now, today, I'm married, I have children. I eat breakfast with my wife and my children every single day. I take my children to school every single day before they go into the school. They get a hug from me. They know that their dad loves them. And, and that's how I've structured my day because I'm on my own. I can structure my day so that I don't have meetings before a certain time, so I can be at school and, and take them there and wish them a great day. And it also allows me to structure the end of my day. So at the end of my day, I can do certain things and, and shift meetings if I need to. And maybe not be in the office as much as I would have to be if I was working for a firm, but I'm still gonna get the same amount of work done in a day.

I'm still, I'll be able to work from home if I have to in the evenings, but I have the flexibility to organize my day without FaceTime, without having to show a partner or a colleague that I'm working and in the office so they can see me. And that's one of the biggest advantages. I set my own targets, hourly targets based on the income that I want. So as long as you have work by way of clients who need your services, you can set your hourly targets that you work each day. And so I'm able to do that, and I can increase my hourly rate or keep my hourly rate the same as I choose. And one of the things that I found being in a firm where you don't control your hourly rate was someone else determined how much you were charged at. And oftentimes that prevented me from being able to bring in clients that I wanted to service because I knew they would never be able to pay my hourly rate.

They just couldn't agree to it. So those are some of the main reasons why, if you look at the time, I'm able to manage my time and manage my day and manage my life. So the fact that I eat breakfast with my wife and my children means that my relationships with them are intact. I'm not a stranger. I'm not just working all the time chasing the buck. We know each other, talk to each other, love each other, and we're able to, to share things and, and set the tone for our day, every day together so that we try and maximize the possibility and probability that we're gonna have a great day. Right. And I love that. I wouldn't trade, I wouldn't trade that for the world, you know? And then in terms of relationships, I can build the relationships with people who I want to build relationships for.

I have some organizations that I work for on a pro bono basis that I couldn't work for if I was working in a firm, I wouldn't be able to give them my services for free. I know they can't afford it, but they need it. And that's one of the things that I do. And, and if I'm working in an organization or a firm that wants to manage and monitor and control my hours, I won't be able to do those things. And so I'm, I happily do them. And it's allowed me to build up relationships professionally and personally. You know, some of those businesses that may not be able to afford it, know other businesses that can afford my services, and I get referrals from them on that basis. And so, you know, sometimes your clients come from the le least likely sources. And I've built my business on some of those principles, and that's how many companies and individuals find me.

Right. So you talked about time, you talked about relationships, and I, I love what you said, which is you want to build relationships with you, with who, I mean, with those you want to build relationships with, right? So it's, you're very being, you're being very proactive about those relationships instead of like, anything and everything, you know, you can pick and choose exactly. Team members, whether it's the type of work you wanna do, you know, who do you want to service?

Yeah. And it's important, you know, it, I'm, I'm approaching the 20 year mark in my career. And so it's important at this stage to be very deliberate about who I work with and why I work with certain clients and how I work with them. And part of that means you have to manage the relationships, manage expectations, and, and also chart the course of the relationship. And, and it's a give and take. So clients will always let you know what their needs are. And my job is to help them meet those needs in a cost effective manner. And, and at the end of it, the hope is that we're all friends. You know, by the end, we, we should be friends and in business together. And that's really the goal. So I, I cherish some of the relationships, all of the relationships I have with clients and with business clients who, who use my services. It's what makes it a joy and a pleasure to come to work every day.

Right. Um, now let's talk about meaning purpose. So, um, do you feel most satisfied? I think I already know the answer, but just curious, can you talk more about the sense of satisfaction, the sense of purpose, you, I mean, and how, how that's different today, you know, as a person running his own private practice versus, um, you know, working for somebody else?

Oh, sure. So purpose, I, I've known my purpose. It's strange. I, I was introduced to my purpose at age nine to be a lawyer. But over the years, I further defined that purpose. And when people say, you know, helping people, I like helping people. That's something that I typically say, but I further defined it as I've gone through these 18 years of practice. And so I know that my purpose is to be a lawyer. I know my purpose is to be a, a labor and employment lawyer and civil litigation lawyer as well. But I, I see my purpose when I look at some of the clients that I deal with and, and the types of cases that they bring to me, and I know that there are some of them that, that have really affected the landscape of, of labor and employment law and caused, caused us all to, to think about some of the things that we do and how we do them. And, and there are some of them that remind me that every case is not about money alone. It's about one individual who's been affected by a decision. And so every day I try my best to make good decisions. And so when I look at purpose, I try and allow my purpose to drive every single decision that I make. And in that way, you end up living a purpose-driven life. That's the hope and the goal,

Right?

And, and sometimes that's flexible and it can be somewhat fluid because in different seasons in life, we, we see different things, you know? And in this season in life, I am, I'm looking at building legacy. I'm looking at setting up legacy for my children and looking at that type of security for them. And less so for, for me and some of the, the selfish needs that I looked at when I started like, you know, a nice watch or a beautiful suit, it's right, it's different things now. You know, you want to position your children's children for success and for their financial wellbeing. And, and so in every decision I make, whether I take this client or that client, I'm, I'm constantly focused on, on my goals and, and some of those goals that way.

Let's talk about something. Um, I guess, uh, that's the elephant in the room, which is, um, lawyers typically bill for the time they work, right? And, um, okay. And um, and I know you said when you work for the other, other firms, you had to do, you have to bill so many hours and so forth. There were rules, right? And you had to meet them, you know, that's the way it is. Um, so of course that is like, you know, putting you in this straight jacket. But the other side of it is customers today, they don't really care about effort. They care about results, right? I mean, um, yeah, I'll give you an example. Jeff Bezos probably has done a lot of good to a lot of people. I mean, that's why he's worth a billion dollars. He's not trading money for others, right? He's trading results, you know, if it's, you know, a cheap product that shows up at my door next day, he gives it to them, and <laugh>, he's worth a billion dollars.

So, um, <laugh>, I mean, it is kind of an interesting, of course, now you have freedom because it's your private practice, right? So you can do whatever you want. There's no rules. You can make up the rules. So how do you think about this idea of, you know, uh, because, you know, again, unfortunately, I'm, I'm just pretending to be a, you know, your client of yours, right? And he walks in and, uh, he's in trouble. He needs help. Um, I mean, he's, you know, let's say he doesn't have any money to survive because he doesn't have a job, et cetera, and you're gonna help solve this problem for him. But when you tell him that I'm worth X hundreds of dollars an hour, he's thinking, I never made that kind of money. And, um, you know, because unfortunately as humans, we don't care about others. We care about us, right? Uh, but on the other hand, if you tell him, you know what? I can negotiate a $40,000 settlement for you, and my fee is this much, he'll be thinking, no problem. Right? You know, because <laugh>, then, I, I, you know, because they, he focuses on the 40,000 not on your fees, right? So I'm of course, right. I'm kind of, um, you know, simplifying it, but I just kind of wanted to ask your take on this. How do you see? Sure.

It's a great question. It's, it's a great question there. And, and let me explain how I look at it. I, I look at every single person and file that comes into my office in the same way. And here's my approach. When I look at a file, I look first at what are the legal issues? Is there a problem? You know, so if you're a, an individual who comes into my office and says, you know what? I just got fired. So my first issue is, okay, was it wrongful or not? You know, maybe you deserved it, <laugh>. And so once we answer that question, okay, it was wrongful. They shouldn't have fired you the way they did. Did they give you a package? Okay, maybe they gave you a package, but is it enough? Yes or no? And so let's say the answer to that question is no.

So then the next thing that I do is in my analysis, I say, okay, well what should they have given you? And, and so let's use simple numbers. Let's say they're offering you $10,000, but they really owe you a hundred thousand dollars. My job is to get you all of, or as close as I can to the remaining $90,000. And so in that type of a situation, I know that somewhere, somewhere along the line, whether this case is negotiated or argued all the way to a trial, I have to be able to help you and leave enough of that $90,000 for you to feel like you gotta win, right? But get paid enough to feel that I gotta win as well. And, and I do this with every single matter, every single file, every single client that I look at. It's a business decision first.

And then there are some times when I look at the business decision, and, and I'll tell you the typical example. It's, you know, the person that's earning between 20 and $40,000 per year, and they were working somewhere for five years and they're probably owed somewhere around, you know, 10 to $15,000. And so when I look at my hourly rate, I say, is this gonna be worth it? And the answer is always gonna be no, because we'll never be able to take that person all the way through the legal process and get them somewhere close to their 10 or $15,000 plus the time we've spent. And so the difference maker for me is in, in the time that I meet with somebody, and this is usually in a 45 minute to an hour and a half consultation, I make the decision, is this the kind of person that needs to be helped no matter what?

Is this the kind of person that I should not turn down regardless of the financial decision? And if I answer that question, yes, I, I should be helping this person, the next thing I do is I make a business proposal to the person. I let them know, look, this is the value of your case as I see it. This is how much I think I can help you achieve. My cost is going to be exponentially more than that. However, to make this business decision, I will provide you the value of attempting to get this money for you at this rate. And they're oftentimes when I'll fix my fees, even though I know I'm going to spend much more than that, but I will limit my fees and fix it because it's worth it to me to help that person, right? And sometimes it can provide a learning experience to one of my clerks in addition to me negotiating for this person. And sometimes it's simply, you know, money, it is time that we lose, we just don't get full value for, and, but we do our best. But, but that's the real decision. And so whether the case can bring in the $90,000 or it's gonna bring in 10 or $15,000, I look at what's the value of what I can bring to this person? And, and if I was that person, how much would I be willing to pay for that service?

Right? So

If, if you've got a case and you're trying to get $5,000, I'm not the guy who's gonna propose to you, pay me $3,000 and I'll help you get the $5,000. 'cause I wouldn't do that, right? I would never pay someone 3000 to help me get five,

Right?

So it's always got to make sense financially. I want to bring value to every single person that I meet and every single person that I help. And, and if I find that it's simply not possible to do it, and, and it's just not a case that I feel needs to be argued by me, I won't do it.

Right?

And I will tell the person, I just don't think it, it's financially sound or it makes sense, or, you know, it's not a case that I'm willing to take. And I, and I'll explain exactly why,

Right?

And, and sometimes it's the financial part. Sometimes it's maybe just it's not a good personality fit. And, and we have to read those things as well. As lawyers, we have to read a lot in our first meeting with people because, you know, I need to be able to trust the person who's in front of me. 'cause I'm gonna go to bat for that person and maybe help that person. And, and if they don't have the money for it, I don't wanna fight them to get paid after I've already helped them win <laugh>. Right.

You know? Right, right. And,

And those are some of the realities of our business.

Absolutely. So the way you look at it is, if I were to paraphrase, um, you look at what the possible outcome is, and of course, and you get paid, and then you figure, ask the question, is there enough money for both the client and you and for the client to be satisfied? And if the answer is no, um, and you want to help the person, you might say, okay, well I'll, instead of taking x I'll take half of that, but here are some of the other things that I get out of it. It gives me a sense of satisfaction, uh, it helps my clock because she can do some of the work and she can learn. Um, um, so overall it's still a win and and therefore I'm going to go ahead and do this. Um,

Exactly, exactly. It's not always the money that drives it. Right. It it's a large, it's a large part of it, but it's not all of it.

Right. Right, right, right. And, um, I think that's a good way to look at it. So are you kind of suggesting that this idea of, because I mean, this is some of the frustrations, um, I think the average people have, you know, when they work with lawyers is that some lawyers are not willing to see things from the customer's point of view or the client's point of view. Uh, they're so stuck on the hourly rate, you know, they kind of miss the human side of, you know, what's going on in that whole relationship. And I think it's not their fault. It just, it's conditioning. Right. For years and years, for decades and decades, you know, everything works on the hourly rate. So that can <crosstalk>, you're

Absolutely right. It's the way we're trained, right? Right. Because we're, all of us are trained by somebody or a group of people, right. And so that's what we know. And so if the person that trained me was, you know, a monster, an inconsiderate and arrogant person who was never nice to anybody, the chances are I'm gonna practice and be inconsiderate and not nice to anybody because that's all I know. Right. And that's what I've seen, and that's what I've been told is right, until I meet somebody else who has the, the courage to say, Hey, you know what, there's another way of doing it.

Right?

And, and we all end up in those places where there are things we're doing because those before us told us that's how you do it. And eventually, you know, someone has the, the courage or the kindness to say there's another way to do it, and hopefully we accept that kindness in the right way and change,

Right?

And so for most of us, we've never been mentored in how the business of law works. These are things that I've learned by trial and error and, and sometimes by watching others and, and trying to see others who are successful in what they do. And, and that's how we live and that's how we do it.

Right. You know, I would love to do another episode with you about the business of running a law practice, right. Because, um, unfortunately there are a lot of good lawyers who don't make it, you know, as solo business owners, they try and they try and then they fail, and then they give up, and then they kind of, you're

Absolutely right.

You know, settle working for a, a company and just, you know, being just another person on the payroll. Um, so I would love to Yeah.

They end up there by default. You're, you're absolutely right. Many people end up there by default because they just don't know how to do it the right way. Right. And, and they can be great at what they do, but they're, they're stuck because they, they can't run the business,

Right? Yeah. And, um, you, you work with a lot of, because you were part of the law chambers and you had a lot of lawyers you helped and so forth, right? Um, yes,

And I, I still do, I still mentor, I still mentor lawyers through my business, the house of law. It's my business center for legal professionals, and I, I still mentor lawyers and paralegals in the profession that way.

So tell me more about that. What exactly is that?

So the house of law is a business center for legal professionals. And what I do is, I, I mentor paralegals and lawyers who want to grow a law practice. They want to grow a a business. And I don't, you know, they don't, they can call me if they have a question about, you know, how do I get documents filed in court or, or what do I do with this money in relationship to my trust account? I can answer those questions as well, but for the most part, people will ask me questions about the business side. How do I grow my business? How do I, how do I deal with a client who's asking me this? 'cause I think it's unethical, or how do I respond to this type of complaint because, you know, I'm, somebody's being unfair with me, or another lawyer may be being unfair with me. How do I behave in this circumstance? And I, I do, I continue to provide that type of advice. Much much of it is business advice,

Right?

And I don't charge, I don't charge for it because it, it's, it's one of those things that I think the profession should be giving to us and helping us with. And it isn't. And, and there's no course you can take and there's no, there's no group you can talk to at the law society. They can provide you with a mentor to help with substantive law questions, but, but there's no, you can go to get that simple business advice. And that's, that's the toughest part. And so I provide that to, to many new lawyers and even to some, not so new lawyers, but those who want to build a business,

Right? I would love to spend another episode talk about, to talk about what are the key success factors. Like, you know, when you're in private practice, what, what probably ends up killing you or not making you successful is not the law part, right. It's the business part. So I

Absolutely,

Yeah, I would love to do an episode if you open, um, open to that, um, where we talk about, you know, what are some of the key success factors, you know, of in all the years of experience and then kind of, you know, like peel the onions and talk about each area. Like I know marketing is one, and I know there's so many other pieces, so,

Exactly. I, you know what? It's funny, I, I think about it all the time because I am, I'm dealing with those issues all the time, but you're right, we can narrow them down into a few categories and, and a few different areas, which people just have to master if they're gonna be successful.

Right.

It's a sense that, you know, got it. You have to master it if you're gonna survive.

Right? Yeah. I really, really enjoy talking to you today, Gary, and I really appreciate your time today, and I would love to come back and talk to you again.

No, thank you. This has been a pleasure. It's been fun. Always great to talk to you, but you know what, I, I love talking to you about the law. I love talking about practicing the law. So for me, this is fun time, <laugh>.

Thank you very much. And, uh, thank you everyone for listening to the first episode of the Dominate Law Podcast show. And you're listening to Nora. I'm your host, and today our guest is Gary Bennett. And if you have any questions, um, how can somebody get ahold of you? Gary?

Great question. There are a couple of ways to reach me. You can contact me at my law firm, 9 0 5 2 4 7 0 1 7 4, and let me say it again. 9 0 5 2 4 7 0 1 7 4. Or you can reach me at my website and you can go to www.ga law firm ca. I hope I said that slowly enough.

Perfect. Actually, we'll include all of this in the call notes so people can, you know, go and, uh, find your phone number and your website easily and contact you that way.

Okay, great.

Thank you very much.

You're welcome.

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