Using your Passion to Help People get Justice with James DeSimone

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Hello everyone. Welcome to another episode of the Dominate Law podcast show. This is Reio host. Today, I'm super excited to have an attorney who has been practicing law for 30 plus years. He is Jim DeSimone and the founder of Ouija DeSimone law.com. Jim, welcome.

Thank you very much, Rine Pleasant to, uh, it's my pleasure to be on your show.

As you know, Jim, uh, the theme of, uh, my show is how can you create more freedom, more freedom of time, money, purpose, and relationship? But before we get into that discussion, uh, I want to talk to you about yourself. Like, for those of us who have yet to meet you, tell us a little bit about your story. Why did you get into law? Who are you? Just help us get to know you.

Well, as you said, I've been a lawyer for now 33 years, and my focus has been on civil rights law, which rep, which means that we represent individuals who have been mistreated by corporations. They work for the government or the police, and in those situations, try to get them monetary compensation in the form of justice, uh, when they are wronged. And I got into this, um, you know, I've wanted to be a lawyer almost all my life, uh, since, uh, e even first grade, when my family moved from Brooklyn, New York to New Jersey. And we had an encounter with an attorney during that process. And I thought that, um, I was an avid reader even at first grade, and I thought, this seems like something I can do. And I've dedicated my life to honing my skills as an attorney high school debate team, college debate team at Johns Hopkins, UCLA law school representing and, and volunteering to represent individuals in clinics, uh, in different areas of Los Angeles, so that I could give a voice to those who, um, at times are powerless when they are either lower income or have been fired from a job or beaten up or killed by the police.

Our civil justice system is the great equalizer. It levels the playing field. So someone like myself who can come in and using the skills, legal acumen, and, and resources, because it takes resources to litigate those cases, to bring their cases into the court of law, to shine the light of truth in a court of law, often before a jury. And once the truth comes out to hopefully attain justice in the form of monetary compensation for those clients.

Right? I don't know if you saw this movie, but there's a movie with Denzel Washington where he was a lawyer. I can't remember the name. And, uh, is

It the recent movie, Roman j Israel?

I That's the one. Roman Israel.

There's a couple of them, right? Yes, I did see that, see that movie? And, and it really spoke to me. I mean, there, uh, there were some scenes that I, that that frustrated me because when he had an interaction in the community meeting that went awry. But I think that, um, what it really, um, when you, when you look behind it, I mean, Roman j Israel played by Denzel Washington, was a brilliant lawyer who had a disability, and his disability made his interactions with other individuals sometimes awkward. And yet he, um, he was a passionate lawyer, but he made a fatal mistake, and I won't give away the ending, right? Um, but, um, uh, but, you know, and, and that, and, and and beyond his passion for justice and the causes he was fighting for in that movie, what, what really was, you know, a lesson, and it's a lesson that I, um, have didn't have to learn the hard way, fortunately, but you never wanna compromise your ethics in this business, right? No one case, no one situation is worth losing your bar license, losing your life, losing your livelihood, your family. You always have to go through and do the right thing as you're prosecuting these cases. And I let people know I'm a truth seeker. If a client comes in, you know, what do you want me to say? And they say they can lie. Well, that they're not my client,

Right?

When I come into court, I wanna have the faith and confidence that I am presenting a, a true case to the judge, a true case to the jury, and to have not done anything that I am ashamed of, or that I, that is unethical, that could come back to bite both me and my client.

Right? But in, in that movie, he, he, he goes in there because he wants to fight for the person who doesn't have any other recourse. And, uh, that, that kind of, I, I guess similar to why a lot of lawyers get into this, right? Like, you know, being there for the little guy. And, um,

That is very true. I, and it's, uh, there, there is, I mean, I am part of several legal groups, uh, statewide groups such as the California Employment Lawyers Association, more local groups. We have a local group here called Left Jaw, which is the legal Eagles for Truth Justice in the American Way. And there are so many committed lawyers who are doing their best to represent individuals who don't have the resources. We put our own money on the line, we put our own sweat equity into these cases to get justice for these clients, and we care, and we're passionate about the work we do. And if you go in and you see lawyers, if you're sitting on a jury and you could see a lawyer that doesn't care about his client, well, why should a jury care about that client, right? If the, if the, if the lawyer doesn't like his own client, why should a jury like that client?

Why should a jury provide monetary compensation? So we, we spend time, I'll go to my client's houses, I'll have dinner with them, I'll do what they do in terms of getting to know them better, so that when I'm coming into court, I can help, you know, basically have walked in their shoes and convey their story to the jury. Because ultimately, we, as lawyers, we, we like to see ourselves as, you know, the knight in shining armor. Sometimes that can save the day, but, and, and oftentimes cases do resolve by settlement. Um, and, and that, uh, could be a good way. But ultimately, who are the heroes? The heroes are the 12 individuals in that jury box who, although they're paying $15 a day, you know, a ridiculously low amount for the dedication of their time, they showed up. They showed up for jury duty. They didn't try to get out of it.

They gave honest answers during voir dire. And they are the heroes of the process. Those individuals in that jury box are through our Seventh Amendment, constitutional right to a jury trial can right terrible wrongs. They're the ones whose verdict. A verdict means to speak the truth, to bring judgment against a corporation or a government emptying the police. And often it's, it's not easy for a jury to find against the police, for instance, you know, we all count on the police when something goes wrong. If our house gets burglarized, if we have a family situation, you know, we want the police to come and be professional and competent, responsible and treat people with dignity and respect. But when they fall short of that, and when they unnecessarily injure someone or kill someone without justification, then it's only through the jury system. Can justice be broad, right?

Because especially here in the city of Los Angeles, um, police officers who violate the law and kill someone, don't get prosecuted very often. Now, I represented the family of Brendan Glenn. He's a young man who was, um, living at Venice Beach and, um, was in a situation where there was a disagreement. And the police came in and, and, and treated him very heavy handedly admitted immediately, um, went to grab him by the hair and throw him down. And when he just started to lift himself back up off the ground, an officer shot him twice in the back, there's a video of that shooting. Chief Beck, our chief of police of the Los Angeles Police Department, came forward and publicly said that this officer should be prosecuted because this was against policy.

May 5th, 2018 will be the third year anniversary of that shooting. The district attorney not only has not prosecuted that police officer, the district attorney hasn't commented publicly on what she's going to do. My clients have been compensated monetarily. The city knew that they were in the wrong, and when we brought a federal civil rights lawsuit, paid them compensation for the loss of their son. Brendan Glenn had a son, Avery Glenn, four years old, he would speak to his father on FaceTime every week. Doesn't have a father, Brendan Glenn intended on coming home and being a good father. And so he's been compensated too. But if we can't get justice through the criminal justice system, it's lawyers like myself and the lawyers I work with here at V James d Simone Law, that obtained justice through the civil justice system, justice. And what they, what we can achieve in the civil justice system is monetary compensation. It's all we have. We can't bring someone back. We can't unring that bell, but at least we can compensate them for the wrong. And hopefully in that way, change will be affected. So that if public entities, such as the city of Los Angeles, when they pay out these huge judgements, they have to look internally and figure out how do we do a better job with our police force to make sure these types of shootings don't happen again?

Right. I was, um, I mean, as a layman, I'm not an attorney, as you know. Um, you know, I, I get my knowledge from watching tv. So there's a documentary, I'm sure you've heard of it, called Making a Murderer. Uh, it's the story of somebody by the name of Brendan Dassey in Wisconsin. And, um, it was on Netflix, and my stomach was just going crazy. I mean, it's almost like there are two systems, one for the rich and the smart, and then one for everybody else. And, um, if you are everybody else, at least in this particular documentary, you are, you are done. I mean, here is a guy who's not very smart, you know, intellectually he's not that, you know, like, I mean, there are a couple of characters, but, uh, you know, like he, he, he is, he is not a smart person. I mean, it's one of the two characters in that whole documentary, and, and they take him for a ride, and they just need somebody to blame. And he was the one who was blamed, and he is in jail. And, um, I don't know if that documentary is accurate or not, but at least, um, just watching it, you know, I'm like, I don't want to be in Wisconsin. I'm not saying that <laugh> <laugh>,

I, I, yeah, I think it's immensely accurate. I mean, there are committed and, and and dedicated public defenders who do their best with big caseloads to represent individuals who are wrongfully accused of crime accused. And so often there is a rush to judgment by police agencies because they wanna fi they wanna get a conviction, right? And you have situations where even, you know, district attorneys become involved and don't turn over evidence that will ex, you know, that you, they have an obligation as a district attorney to turn over what's called exculpatory evidence, evidence that would show that the person, that tends to show that the person is innocent, and those rules are broken, and there's seldom consequences. There's starting to be more, I mean, we have this in Orange County, California, uh, there, some of this misconduct has been, uh, uprooted and, and basically come, come to light, uh, where, you know, you've got these, um, what, you know, these jail snitches, informants who, they, they're just professional informants.

They go in and they, you know, they can intimidate and or someone to say something they don't wanna say or lie about what the person says, and then come in and testify, and people are convicted on that testimony. And, um, you know, there really should be more of a, uh, you know, in terms of both police work and the work that district attorneys do, um, to make sure that the right person is being prosecuted because, and, and not to put an innocent person behind bars, because, uh, there is nothing worse than losing your freedom. Right? And, you know, the conditions of jail and the conditions of prison in the United States of America in, in many places are pretty horrific, right? And if a person is behind bars, and we have a situation where the monetary bail system has also come under great scrutiny, because why should a person who's poor not be able to defend themselves because they're stuck in jail? Or a person who is rich can make bail right? Toward the best lawyers and be able to mount the defense pretty hard to mount the defense when you're stuck in a jail cell,

Right? Yeah, it's pretty sad. I mean, it's supposed to be the land of the free, but unfortunately, if you're not rich or smart, you are, you, I mean, the system works against you. At least that's kind of what I got out of, you know, some of these things I've been watching lately. It's, it's, um,

Well, there are, you know, again, um, you know, at times lawyers have a bad name, although I think we're making a bit of a comeback because people are realizing through these injustices that they read about and see, um, the videos of what happens to individuals when they are with the police on, you know, YouTube and, and Facebook and so on, that people are realizing that, hey, the only way to get justice is through, uh, getting a lawyer. I mean, it's a little bit like police. I mean, sometimes police have a bad reputation, but if you need a police officer, you're gonna want them to show up. Well, the same thing when someone needs a lawyer, they're gonna want someone who is going to take their case and treat it as if it was their family member and their own. And, you know, I'm, I'm, I'm proud to say that, uh, while I don't practice criminal defense, I do practice on the civil side and then work with criminal defense lawyers, um, if people are wrongfully incarcerated to, to get them justice. And that's what keeps me going. I mean, in, in, after still practicing the fact that so many individuals still need my help, and I still feel, um, vigorous and invigorated by the work that I do, and the satisfaction that you get when you achieve justice for someone, uh, there, there, there's just no better feeling in the world than, uh, being able to achieve that for someone and make a real difference in people's lives.

Right. Let me talk about, um, I, I know you have been practicing for 33 years, so I'm sure the way you think and the way you see the world is different today than it was 10 years ago, or 20 years ago, or when you just started practicing. So when it comes to time, money, purpose, and relationships, I, I wanna kind of talk to you about these four things and how you see things today. What are some of the lessons you learned? Uh, what would you tell somebody who's younger than you and, uh, who's an, who's a lawyer, you know how to think about these things knowing what you know today. So let's start with, um, which one do you wanna start with? Time, money, purpose, relationships, <laugh>,

<laugh>. Well, perhaps relationships, because I've, I've kind of combined, um, having a relationship with my law partner, uh, Carmen, er, who, um, we work together and, and live together. And the fact that we're both committed to this work, uh, makes, um, life more pleasant. I mean, the weekend ago we had to see a witness to a police shooting. Well, the two of us drive out to Temecula to see a witness. We interview a witness that morning, get the information necessary from from him, and then we're able to have lunch together, um, in a beautiful restaurant in Temecula and, and drive home together and listen to the music we love on, on the way home. So, um, somehow I've been fortunate enough in life to find a, uh, woman, uh, who shares my passion for achieving justice. She has an interesting background herself, because she was a New York Police Department officer, uh, in the, in the eighties, and then a paralegal, and, and she's also a mom and now a grandmother.

Um, so, um, we share that love of family. I have one daughter, she has three children. Um, and so, you know, last year for instance, we took the entire family to Puerto Rico, uh, for, um, a nice extended week and vacation. And that was a wonderful time. So, um, while we work very hard, uh, we also try to make time for each other and time for, to be there for our families and, um, you know, and, and, and go to places that, um, are, are enjoyable. You know, quite honestly, um, there's challenges on the issue of time. There's challenges on the issue of money <laugh>. Uh, but the, the challenges I think that on time that are so much greater today than they were when I was coming up, are because of, you know, the internet. You know, they say the internet is a curse, right?

And people, you know, there's so many ways for people to get in touch with you. And, and I, and I maintain a very vital and vibrant, uh, presence, especially on Facebook. I'm on Instagram, I have a Twitter account. They don't use as much. I don't find that as interactive, but people instant message you. When they message you, they wanna response right away. Well, I cannot always respond right away 'cause I'm in the middle of a deposition. I'm in the middle of preparing a pleading. Being a lawyer is hard work. I have a great team here. I'm in association with a great law firm, B Law Group, Lawrence Bom. Uh, what I've, um, what I've really learned is you need to surround yourself with good people who share your passion, who can bring what you know to the table as much, if not more, than you could bring to the table.

And I'm blessed to be in a situation where I'm both have my own law firm, v James d Simone, and I'm of counsel to B Law. So, one piece of advice I can give to younger attorneys is associate yourself with good people who share your values, who share your passion, who are talented, who are willing to work hard, but also understand the importance of a work life balance. And the folks I work with need to take time for whatever reason. I'm very supportive of that when I'm on vacation, Hey, these days I still gotta check the internet in the morning. Sometimes, you know, I'll get up earlier than everyone else, check my emails, wanna make sure nothing's going wrong. It's not ideal. I mean, in a way, it would be nice to be able to turn off and get away, and I know some of my colleagues do it. I, I find that a little difficult. Um, but, um, you know, nonetheless, I'd rather make sure that things are getting taken care of, uh, even when I'm away, uh, than come back to something that went awry because I wasn't, I wasn't, uh, paying attention.

Right. Yeah. So, so your view on relationships, I assume you, you realize it's really, really important and you need to give relationship a lot of time, uh, today, more so than maybe when you were younger. Is that a fair statement?

Well, I, I always had a, uh, situation where, um, I tried to make sure that I had a good balance of my professional and, and, and personal life. So family has always been important to me. Um, my daughter's 21 now, but you know, when she was younger, I, I always made sure I was home for dinner. I always made sure that I made time for her. Uh, you know, she probably will, would say I work too much, honestly, <laugh>. Uh, but, um, you know, because I do work at home, but I would rather be working at home than not being at home. Right? And so, I, I always made sure that, uh, I, I, I made, I made time for, for my family,

Right? Howard did a study, I think they, this is one of the longest studies they ever did. They followed people over a 50 year period, and they found the happiest people were the ones who had great relationships. Not a lot of relationships, but a few amazing relationships. Um, and, um, they find that, you know, as humans, we, we, we have to belong somewhere. And those relationships is kind of what makes us feel like we belong somewhere.

I, I read that study Nore, and, and I, it really did speak to me because not only am I blessed to have a, uh, wonderful relationship, uh, with Carmen, er, I, I also being part of the work that we do, there is such a sense of comradery. I enjoy going to legal conferences, you know, the consumer attorneys conferences in Las Vegas. I mean, I don't love Las Vegas anymore that much. But, um, you know, but the fact that you see people, and, you know, I, I've, I've been, by being true to myself, um, and being who I am, I, I do have, um, you know, the, the, the people that see me are so warm and embracing because, and, and I, and I return that, you know, in a way that love, I mean, it really is love and respect for the people in the trenches who are doing the similar work.

And when someone calls me and they need some assistance on something, I do my best to provide that assistance. I've got a brief bank that goes back 30 years, you know, if, if I can help somebody out, um, I'll take time. I'll take time on a Sunday. If someone has a closing argument on a Monday, I'll speak to that attorney. Hey, what do you got? What's your case? You know, and help, uh, craft their closing argument. And in the same way, I, um, learn all the time. I mean, I, I go to seminars and hone my skills as a trial lawyer and the attorneys I meet who are, you know, they, they're crafting different ways of arguing cases. Here's a, you know, a, a roadmap. Here's, okay, what are your facts? Here's how to frame a case. And, um, I know the question is about relationships, but the relationships I have with my colleagues and the people I work with are just very, very rewarding.

I, you know, at the end of this year, um, I invited everyone that we worked with, and Lawrence Bo who's up in Sacramento, and our families to come to our home. And, you know, we had a karaoke party, and, and, and, you know, it wasn't a big party, but, um, everyone who's there genuinely likes each other. And, um, you know, we just had a great time. And, and you know, when I think about it, you know, it brings a little bit of tear to my eye that, you know, I've been able to create this, uh, space and environment here in Marina del Rey where, um, uh, you know, our, one of our top assist. She goes, you know, I can't believe this, but it's really fun working with you, Jim <laugh>. And, uh, you know, that's great to hear, you know, I mean, um, yeah, we should be having fun, uh, even though it's hard work,

Right? So, I guess the way you pick people are people that you like, I mean, in other words, like, you don't wanna spend all your time working with people you don't enjoy working with, right? So how do you go about picking the right kind of people? I mean, knowing what you know today, um, if you're hiring somebody today, like, what do you look for?

Well, first they have to have the, the acumen. Uh, and to be able to, you know, if I'm looking at attorneys, I want someone who's going to be a good writer, who can speak well, who will go into court and advocate, um, and someone who really is passionate about the work we do. Attitude is very, very important. So you wanna see, uh, that, those, those types of skills. And then, you know, really it's, it's people who can be team players. Um, you know, I try to give as much, um, you know, basically allow people to, uh, rise to their abilities and level. And the more they can do, the easier my life is, right? <laugh>. So I don't want to take all, do all the work and take all the credit. I wanna share that. And, you know, in terms of staff, it, it's very similar.

People who are team players who are going to work together, uh, with everyone else. Sometimes I ask the question, you know, do, do you play nice with others? <laugh>? Um, because you know, you can have one, um, person in an office. And I've, I've seen it happen. And, uh, where you have one person in the office who's pointing fingers and isn't carrying their, their their weight, and that can really, you know, suck the life out of an office. Um, right. What do I do when I have somebody like that? Um, we let them go <laugh>. You know, it's just, uh, I, I, I can't tolerate that, uh, you know, mistakes are gonna happen in the law office. I don't like to admit that, but, you know, there's just too much going on that you're not, that that mistakes aren't gonna happen once in a while. Right? Right.

What do you do with those mistakes? You, you deal with it, you learn from it. You, you, you basically want people to, if something is going wrong in a case, I want people who are gonna come to me and tell me, Hey, Jim, I, this is my concern. Or, Jim, we messed up. This is what we did. <laugh>. If I get angry when that happens, they're not gonna tell me when that, I would think like, that happens, I'd rather know. So, um, you know, part of it is just creating a, a mutual respectful environment and finding people who are like-minded, who respect each other and aren't afraid to come forward and, uh, take responsibility for, for their work. And, and then again, that caring attitude. Everyone who I work with here cares about our clients. When clients call here, they feel like they're being cared for, and there's a concern for them. And that's important. It carries through to when we go to trial, and it carries through day to day here.

Right. I'm just gonna, I'm just gonna ask you a question. Um, so recently I was reading, um, again, uh, the book Good to Great by Jim Collins, and he talks about level five leaders, uh, and he talks about, um, you know, one of the key attributes of what he can calls Level five leaders. Number one, they have unflinching faith in their purpose, their, their, you know, whatever they're trying to do. And usually it's not self-directed, it's Outward Director. It's about serving others, but at the same time, they're so good at dealing with the truth, dealing with the problems, you know, um, they, they don't just, like, some people, they're afraid of the truth, so they don't talk about it. They don't even want to acknowledge it to themselves. They hope things will go away. Like, I don't know, like do you find, like, I know you said, um, like, do you find, is that the kind of person you're looking for? Or like, do you want somebody who's very, you know, like, who really believes in what you do and, uh, you know, who's committed to it, but at the same time, who's willing to confront problems and deal with them?

Absolutely. I think that, uh, I haven't read that book. Um, it sounds like a good book to read. Um, I, it, it does, um, speak to me because the, the passion for the work that we do and the service to others is a key component of the work that we do. It. Um, you know, I mean, I love music. I love to go see concerts, and, uh, that's one way that I, um, blow off Steam, enjoy myself, is to, uh, li listen to music. If we're talking rock and roll, I've probably seen more <laugh>, you know, groups over the years. But, you know, you'll, you'll have, and you know, in sports, I love sports too. You know, we're nothing without our fans, right? That's, that's what a band will say, you know, uh, after, uh, athletes give glory to God, you know, we say, you know, thank you to the, to the fans, right?

And, uh, it's the same thing for us. Um, we're nothing without our clients. We, we, the work that we do is so critically important. And I, I tell my clients, you know, there's a destination we're trying to get to. Destination is to get you compensated for this wrong that has occurred to you. But as the old line says, it's, it's not the destination, it's the journey. So, um, although the destination is very important, the type of work that we do, the journey, the legal journey that, um, individuals are taken on in our practice, um, it's not easy to file a lawsuit. I mean, everyone thinks it's kind of, you just file a lawsuit with a piece of paper, pay the filing fee, but the scrutiny that my clients are under, especially these days, their social media accounts, they can be videotaped. I mean, there's sub rows of video.

It's legal for the defense to hire investigators to videotape my clients as they go about their daily lives. It's not a great situation necessarily to be in. It's very intimidating. I mean, Monday, I sat in a deposition where my client had been sexually harassed. She complained about it in writing and was immediately laid off. And sitting in the room are two older female attorneys very experienced, the CFO who bullied her into a layoff, and the individual who was accused of sexually harassing her. And it's so intimidating for my client in that situation, but how can she get through it? She sees the strength and conviction of myself as a lawyer, prepared her. Well, it was a tough day, but yet that journey of what she went through that day and and through this case is, while it's not pleasant for her at all, you know, she's working other jobs, she'd rather not, this never happened, but by being who we are and supportive, uh, we can make that journey at least more palatable, and hopefully we'll get to the destination of getting her fairly compensated for what she went through.

Right, right. I'm sure if I talk to you 30 years ago was this today, and I ask you, how do you spend your time? I'm sure you'll gimme a different answer. Can you tell me what would you have told me 30 years ago was this today? As to how you spend your time?

Well, I think 30 years ago, I read more books. I find the amount of reading I do with everything that's on the internet. I read more articles now. 30 years ago, I was an avid basketball player, <laugh>, I loved playing ball. Uh, these days, I'm 58 years old. Um, I still get out and shoot around every so often, but, uh, you know, it doesn't feel as good. I still love bike riding. Um, I had an office on Venice Beach, so I would ride bicycles all the time. Um, and, but, uh, unfortunately in November of last year, I broke four ribs riding a bicycle. Wow. So I've been riding an exercise bike <laugh> instead of getting out there, uh, I, I wanna get back to full strength before I, uh, get to do it. I'm doing pretty well. I don't, don't get me wrong, but it was, it was, uh, a pretty traumatic injury, uh, down there on the bike path when someone, little girl cut in front of me and I would brake so hard that I went flying off my bike and got injured.

Uh, 30 years ago when I went on vacation, I went camping. I drove across the country. I went to national parks. These days, my vacations are much more likely to be spent at Resorts <laugh>, um, and, uh, a more comfortable bed, although I might go to a music concert in Virginia this year, uh, that where, uh, my buddy and I are talking about bringing tents and camping, which would be the first time I've camped in about 20 years, <laugh>. So <laugh>, I'd like to get back to that. I bought, I bought a for, uh, a an SUV or I, I'm leasing an SUV to try to do some more road trips and getting back to seeing more of our national parks again, um, and things like that.

Right. In terms of, uh, at work, how do you spend your time? Uh, has it changed?

Well, 30 years ago when I had a research project, I would get a bag full of quarters, and I would go to University of West Los Angeles Library, and I would go to books, and I would open books, and I would have to photocopy the cases, and I would've to look at three different books to make sure that they were, that the case was still good law. And a day of research could take me a full day, if not more, at a law library in order to, uh, find out the information I needed to. Now it's all at the tip of my fingertips, uh, on Westlaw. Now I've got people working for me that I could ask to research an issue and, and do that. So what I find myself doing a lot more now is, uh, talking to prospective clients, talking to, uh, attorneys who have cases at this point in my career.

Um, I'm a trial lawyer. I'll go in there and try cases and, you know, I've lost, but I've won a lot more than I've lost, and I get good results for people. And so I've got, you know, younger lawyers and even experienced lawyers who wanna bring me into cases to be the trial lawyer in trial. And, um, quite frankly, that wasn't happening 30 years ago when I was a younger man. Um, so, um, I spent time talking to people about their, their cases. Just this month, I'm taking on two cases that are set for trial, one in March, one in April, and I have another case set for trial in April in between, I would've never been able to do that 30 years ago. I feel confident in my abilities and the team, I have to work those cases up and either successfully litigate them to a jury and, and get a jury to award a, a, a, a verdict or perhaps work it up and, and settle it.

But, uh, these opportunities that are coming to me, um, are just, uh, much, much more prevalent and, um, evaluating those opportunities and figuring out, you know, where I do wanna spend my time, um, you know, takes, takes time. And, uh, so I find, I find myself, um, you know, I mean, yesterday I was on the phone all afternoon, uh, speaking with clients, um, you know, planning for a big lawsuit that we're filing next week and then speaking with a new client. And then another client came in at seven o'clock at night whose son was incarcerated in juvenile hall, and they didn't give him medical care and his appendix burst. So yeah, did I want to go home earlier and have an earlier dinner? Yes, but she's a full-time worker. She's a mom. Her son's not being treated well when he is complaining of pain. He is made fun of by guards, doctors, nurses, ah, you're fine. First appendix in jail. Um, so, you know, when someone calls and needs my help like that, and I know that there might not be a lot of lawyers out there who will take that case, I stay and meet that mom and, you know, she comes away thinking, okay, what they did to my son is wrong, but now I got somebody in the co in my corner. And, you know, just to see that change where they're so happy that someone will take on their case is, it's such a rewarding part of what we do.

Right. So what I'm hearing is, um, as, as time goes along, uh, I'm hearing a bunch of things. One is, you, you became really, really good at a few things, right? One is, um, you, you, you know, a lot more, you are a better trial attorney than you were 30 years ago. So, um, you are able to pick and choose how you focus your time on doing the few things that perhaps you are the best in the world at that, just because you have, you're really good at it. Then I'm also hearing that you, you are exercising your right to choose. Because I guess when you were younger, you probably had to take every case, but now you could choose to help that mom. It may not make you as much money as maybe, let's say in another case, but you choose to, you know, know, skip your dinner and go see her and help her out at 11, at 11 at night. Um, so I guess as you grow older, you are kind of, um, on one hand you are tapping into your unique ability that something that you have that others don't have. Also, you're spending more time on coaching other attorneys, coaching other team members, helping them kind of go to the next level. Uh, and then also you are picking projects that are near and dear to your heart where it kind of, you know, gives you a sense of meaning. So am am I correct in paraphrasing what you just told me?

Na, I think you've perfectly encapsulated, uh, my, my life and passion and, um, what, what we do here. It, uh, that that really does sum it up. Although I still tried to be discerning 30 years ago. I just made more mistakes 30 years ago on what was a good case, <laugh>. But, uh, yes, you've, you've accurately portrayed, uh, our our, you know, what, what we do here and what, and, and what I feel like I bring to the table to both help my colleagues and, and to help, uh, people in the community who have been wronged.

Right. Let's talk about the word purpose, meaning, like, how do you define it and has that changed over time?

Well, I think that, um, the purpose and meaning that we derive from the work that we do is, is at least, um, twofold. And, and if I'm being honest, threefold, I mean, first is the, the purpose of helping out the individuals who come to us for help, that we can advocate on their behalf and, and get them a result when, when a difference is made in someone's life. You know, I had clients were able to buy houses, you know, and had clients who've been able to put their kids through college, you know, um, that's, that's just enormously rewarding. Uh, the second part of that purpose and meaning is, is really how you are perceived and how other individuals respond to you in the community. I mean, I, um, you know, they, they, through Facebook and, and, you know, and all the, all the social media platforms, um, people see the work that we do and it inspires them.

It inspires attorneys to think, okay, I I can do that type of work and make a decent living. And it inspires non-attorneys to see, Hey, look, there's attorneys out there trying to make the world a better place. And when people respond to you so positively, when something good happens and I post about it, and people, um, you know, really come back and, and, and say such nice things, yeah, that, that feels good, that, that feels like your life has a purpose. And then the third purpose, of course, is we, we do have to make a living. I have to keep a roof over my head. I have to make sure that, uh, we're able to prosecute our cases. So, um, through it all, we have to be a going concern. And of course, we live in a, in a system that, uh, you do need to receive monetary reward.

And that's the beautiful part of our contingency fee ju civil justice system that you are able to have people come in and not pay you upfront. And by taking a, a percentage in compensation when you get results, um, enables us to continue to do the work that we do. And, you know, the, I mean, the biggest threat to that these days, you know, this is really the question, but is arbitration agreements because we have a seventh Amendment right to a jury trial, and these forced arbitration on working families of individuals when they have a job or when they buy a consumer product, undermine our seventh Amendment right to a jury trial. And yet the United States Supreme Court, under the Federal Arbitration Act has basically placed an act of Congress above our constitutional right. And, um, it can really undermine getting justice because instead of a jury of your peers, you go in and you try a case in front of a, you know, most of the times a retired judge who is just going to be more likely, he's not a peer or she is not a peer of my clients. She or he may have more in common with the individuals who, um, did wrong to my clients. And that becomes challenging. So, um, we, uh, you know, we, we want to preserve our jury system, and that enables us to do the work we do and to, um, find the purpose and meaning in, in the work that we do, and, and, uh, get those, um, good results for people and have people come away, uh, feeling good about their experience with us as attorneys and human beings.

Right, right. That's awesome. Anything else you want to share with other lawyers who are listening to this? Any advice, anything you would, any wisdom before we wrap up?

Yeah, I mean, remain true to your passion. Sometimes it's a little difficult to get your foot in the door initially. Uh, and, um, I found, uh, early in my career that doing volunteer work, um, demonstrated to people who are making hiring decisions that if I was willing to do something for free, uh, and, and in terms of representing people, it showed the type of dedication and commitment it takes to be the type of lawyers so that, that we are. So, you know, it, it, there's economic challenges when young individuals or old individuals get out of, get out of law school. But to try to, um, even if you're working for that big firm and maybe not following your passion, find a volunteer opportunity that you can fit into your schedule. You know, let the law firm know, you know, try to get them to, uh, encourage you to do it.

Uh, because if you want to then go to the side of type of law that we do, which is representing people and not corporations, not the government, but to represent people who have been harmed, uh, someone like me is going to look at that and say, okay, you did what you had to do to pay your student loans. I get it, but at least at the same time you were volunteering and following the type of work that we wanna do. So don't lose sight of that passion and, and your goals and don't give up easily that, and be resigned to do something that you don't wanna do, because in the end, um, you're not gonna be happy doing that, and you can actually do better in the long run by doing the type of work that we do.

Right, right. Thank you very much, Jim. I really appreciate your time today. I think, uh, the listeners would learn a lot from you from your years and years of experience, and I do really appreciate you taking the time. Uh, I know you are, you are very busy to, uh, not only, you know, do what you do for clients, but also to help out other attorneys.

Na it was my pleasure to, uh, be part of this and, uh, I'm glad I had an opportunity to, uh, share some of the work we do. Thank you very much for your time as well.

Hello everyone, and, uh, thank you very much for listening to another episode of the Dominate Law Podcast show. If you like the show, please, uh, share a comment on iTunes and I'll share with your friends, and have a wonderful day.

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